Tag Archives: Eastern Thought

Session 028: Genesis 9:18 – 9:28: The Son’s of Noah – Eastern and Jewish Perspective

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This session, we are going to look more deeply at what was actually done to Noah, did he have three or four sons, and how does Canaan fit in the mix. We will look at this from more of an Eastern perspective than the Western view that we are used to.

  • Genesis 9:18 through 9:28

    Text from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 9

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 9 Audio

  • Suggested Study Resources

    The following three resources should be helpful. Of course feel free to chase down any study rabbit holes and you want to chase. This is your deep dive in the Word.

  • The BEMA Podcast: A Misplaced Curse

    This podcast covers a lot of the questions that come up after Noah has left the ark. It also brings up an interesting perspective of what was done to Noah by his offspring and why was it such a big deal.

    Web Site Link
    Audio Download Link

  • Noah’s Four Sons – thetorah.com

    Is there an argument to be made that Noah had four son’s and not three?

    Website Link

  • Noah’s Sons names & Was Shem the Oldest? – revealedtruth.com

    A quick read and overviews the story with a couple of new tidbits that haven’t been covered in the other sources.

    Article Link

  • Why Did Noah Curse His Son Ham? – biblword.net

    A quick read and overviews the story with a couple of ew tidbits that weren’t covered in the other sources.

    Article Link

  • Why did Noah curse Canaan instead of Ham? – gotquestions.org

    Another look at how this story was used to mistreat a certain group of humans.

    Article Link

Here are some questions and thoughts to ponder as you look into the resources for this week.

  1. What do you think happened to Noah after reading these new interpretations?
  2. Does what was done even matter, other than the fact that Noah was ‘dishonored’.
  3. What are your thoughts on the three sons versus the four sons
    • Or how does that play into the story line that, if castrated, there was no 4th son?
  4. What do you think Noah really was mad about?
    • In Western thought would a son seeing a father naked be a big deal?
  5. Do you think that Ham wasn’t cursed, because he was already blessed?
  6. Since this is the only story of Noah after the flood, do you think that it was included to provide justification from Moses, when he wrote down these stories, as justification for moving into the land of Canaan with the ation of Israel?

Session 021: Genesis 6:9 – 8:22: Noah and the Flood: Eastern and Jewish Perspective

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We are going to continue our deep dive into the story of Noah. we will be looking at the story from the Eastern/Jewish perspective. When doing so, one of the items that will probably surprise you, is how quickly many of the items wihtin the story that brother Western readers greatly, quickly falls away. In many cases, they were intentionally placed there.

  • Genesis 6:9 through 8:22

    Text from The Bible Gateway starting with Chapter 6

    Genesis 6

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 6 Audio
    Genesis 7 Audio
    Genesis 8 Audio

  • The BEMA Discipleship Podcast: E4: His Bow in the Clouds

    Our main resource for this week is going to be a session from the BEMA Discipleship podcast. It will definately plant seeds for several possible rabbit holes for you to head down. There is also a good chance that you will never look at the story of Noah and the Flood the same way ever again. Yes, these insights are that unique and powerful.

    Podcast Transcript Link
    Podcast Link
    MP3 Download Link

  • EXTRA CREDIT ARTICLES:

    The following three resources will each take you down a unique view of the Noah story. Enjoy.

    Noah’s Repetition and Contradiction

    A quick look at the repetition and contradictions within the Noah story. This touches on the concept of an ‘E’ version and ‘J’ version of the writings in the old testement. This is something that our class will look into in more detail in the near future (much like we looked at the idea of canonization while looking at the Book of Enoch). For now, this is just wetting your appetite for wonderful gems to come.

    Link

    Genesis and the Flood: Understanding the Biblical Story

    A good thought process on how to interpret Genesis from a Western view. A good ballance with what we heard from the BEMA podcast.

    Article Link:

    The Story of Noah and the Ark in the Bible

    Read this one to the end. The last section ‘Deluge of Purity’ is an interesting perspective that will probably be completely new to you.

    Article Link

As we look at this story as seen from the perspective of our Jewish bretheren, look closely for the following items.

  • How much symetry there is between the creation story and the story of the flood.
    • An interesting person study would be to write down the items between the two stories that are similar. You will be surprised.
  • What is unique about the covenent between God and Noah after the flood. This is absolutely beautiful.
  • How does God show restraint in the flood story (and due to the symetry, also in the creation story [that we didn’t see before])
  • After tying in the Chiasm wrapped in the Jewsih thought process and the uniqueness of this covenent, what are your thoughts now about this idea of God ‘remembering’?

Write them down. These are the things we want to ponder over the next few weeks. With one of the main questions being; does it matter?

Session 019: Genesis 6:1-8: What the Jews believed about Nephilim

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This session will be unique. Since we do not have much explanation in the Bible to help us understand what knowledge the Jewish people had for the Nephilim for example, we are going to look at a source external to scripture to understand a little better what the Jewish people thought. We will look at part of the Book of Enoch. We will also look at what it takes to be canon in scripture and why The Book of Enoch is not considered canon.

  • What Are the Apocryphal Books and Do They Belong in the Bible?

    While the Book of Enoch is Apochryphal, it is not part of the Apocrypha. Nonetheless, it is good to understand what constitutes Apochryphal writing and why it is not considered canon. The following web article is short and to the point. It does a good job of identifying why Apocryphal texts are not canon without going into circular logic.

    Link to article

  • The Book of Enoch: Scripture, Heresy, or What? by Brian Godawa

    The following is an academic article that is readable. You won’t need a doctorate to understand it. It does a good job of explaining a good portion of the history of the book but does a very thorough job of showing where The Book of Enoch had what appears to be a strong influence on portions of the New Testament. While all of the arguments are anecdotal, they are well-documented and very convincing.

    Link to article

  • Arguments against The Book of Enoch being canon.

    “Why is ‘The Book of Enoch’ not canon?” One of the best answers to that question that I have found was found on a Q&A site. I have pulled out the appropriate answers (with what attribution is available) and placed them in a PDF on our website. I thought that two of the answers in the thread were exceptionally well written.

    PDF Document

  • The Book of Enoch

    Let’s look at the actual Book of Enoch. Here are links to three free versions of it and a free audio version. There are of course versions that you can access if you are willing to pay for them. You can search for them on your own. We want “I Enoch” and not “2 Enoch” or “3 Enoch”.

    For our discussion this next session, it is not necessary to read the entire Book of Enoch, however, you can if you would like. it is suggested that you read chapters 1 – 11 and 20.

    • The first book version found is at a site called book-ofenoch.com. You can read one chapter at a time by clicking on the links for each chapter listed at the bottom of the web page. [NOTE: It is suggested that you skip the lengthy introduction]. You can download a PDF version which appears to be a copy of an actual book printed a few minutes ago (1883) at Book of Enoch PDF. There are also versions formatted as an ebook in EPUB and Kindle formats. This book is believed to be from the original Ethiopian translated text and uses the chapter and verse identifications that most scholars reference.
    • The second book version found is a recent translation that is much easier to read, however, the chapter and verse identifications do not follow the convention for some reason. This makes us a little reticent to use it. This version can be found as The Complete Book of Enoch: Standard English Version. [NOTE: Since the chapter numbers are different read chapters 1-4 and 7 … we think]
    • The last book version found is interesting because the creator of this website has placed Biblical references within the text in the Book of Enoch. We have not spent any time proving that the listed scripture references bear any correlation or not. As an exercise, we found it compelling. This website is located at The Book of Enoch
    • If you would rather listen, there is a free version at Librivox. Chapters 1-11 can be downloaded from this link.
      Chapters 20-25 can be downloaded from this link.
This is a restatement about the four deep issues that need to be understood in this passage from Genesis 6.

  1. Who were the sons of God and the daughters of man?
  2. What is meant by the number of days being 120 years?
  3. Who were the Nephilim?
  4. The Lord’s response to the wickedness He witnessed.

After reading the Book of Enoch and understanding more about the Jewish view of things, how does this change your answers about Genesis 6 that we looked at last week.

  • What do you think of the differing views of the sons of God between Christianity and Judism?
  • Why was Noah considered to be less sinful (or even sinless) compared to others even though he descended from Adam and Eve?
  • Why do you think that Christians link the 120 years to the age limit of human life? Is this correct?
  • Which of the options for understanding the sons of God do you lean towards and why? Is this understanding crutial to your walk?
  • Which of the options for understanding the Nephilim do you lean towards and why? Is this understanding crutial to your walk?
  • Have you ever had to destroy something that you created? Why? How did you feel?
  • Why do you think that God chose the path that he did for cleansing the Earth? Were there other options?
  • Why do you think that God singled Noah and his family out. Don’t answer generically. Be specific. Would you line up?

Session 013: Genesis 4: Cain and Abel: Eastern Perspectives

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Last session, we covered Genesis Chapter 4 at a high level. The story of Cain and Abel. This week we are looking at the same story but from more of an Eastern perspective. There are some good learnings to be found here, but there are also some traps, as we will try to point out. Discernment is an important factor here.

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway.

    Genesis 4

  • BEMA Discipleship Podcast: Master the Beast

    We have heard from the BEMA podcast before and there are several of us in the group who really appreciate the teachings that come from this perspective. In this interpretation, fear and shame are the main drivers of the story. There are some good concepts in this podcast.

    Podcast Web Page:
    Podcast Download:

  • Ancient Hebrew Research Center: The Untold story of Cain and Abel

    This article presents a few subtly different interpretations of situations within the Cain and Abel story based on the meanings of the original Hebrew words. It also shows how the Western version of the story (often told from the King James Version translation) has been shaped by a translation from 400+ years ago that may not have carried the nuance of the Hebrew language.

    Article Web Page:

  • Rabbi David Zaslow: WHAT’S IN A NAME: A SECRET ABOUT CAIN AND ABEL

    This article focuses on the meaning of the names given to Cain and Abel and dives into even more detail about possible meanings of these anmes than we see in our previous tow resources.

    Article Web Page:

  • EXTRA CREDIT (Will not be part of our discussion): My Jewish Learning: What Midrash Teaches About the Rabbis

    This article gives examples of ‘filling in the gaps’ that Rabbis have told to explain or fill in the blanks of the Cain and Abel story. For Christians, I think it presents an opportunity to show why we need to be careful about adding to scripture. Please only read this with discernment and prayer. However, it does open a window on how some non-scriptural beliefs come into our societies vernacular about the Bible.

    Article Web Page:

Here are some questions to prompt your study and/or discussion time:

  • What are your thoughts about fear and shame being driving factors within the Cain and Abel story?
  • Given how important names are within the Eastern culture, what are your thoughts on interpreting the defined personalities of Cain and Abel based on their names?
  • Inferences are made that the livelyhood of Cain and Abel, farming/working versus sheparding/nomading, are directly related to their reactions as well as God’s reactions to the situation; how far down this rabbit hole are you willing to go and does it influence your thoughts on the story?
  • Most of our Western ideas on this story are baised on the interpretation found in the King James Version (and it’s influence on following translations). Do you think that some of the Eastern ideas you heard are relevant or should be discarded?

Session 007: Genesis 3: The Fall – An Eastern and Western Perspective

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Genesis Chapter 3 is often referred to as the story of ‘The Fall’. Sadly, while there is much to be gained from this passage, there has also been many interpretations that have been self-serving and damaging to others. In this session we will dive deeply into both the Western and Eastern views of this scripture. While we don’ thave time to cover all aspects, the included links will provide plenty of fuel for some deep discussions.

  • Session 007 Prolog Podcast

    Podcast webpage
    Podcast Download

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway.

    Genesis 3

  • Knowing When to Say Enough

    We’ve listened to it before, so if you have already listened to it once, you are ahead of the class. Or listen to it again, but focus on the material from Chapter 3.

    BEMA Discipleship Podcast website:
    BEMA Session 3 download:

  • Playing God

    Rabbi Jari Lorge delivers a presentation that is called “Playing God”. It is a wildly different look at the Creation story than we are used to and comes from a purely Jewish perspective. As a Western Christian, when you hear the initial premise, you will probably be turned off and/or caught off guard. Stick with it; not because you will necessarily agree in the end, but the insights that were presented definitely have facets that can be translated effectively in our understanding of God’s relationship with us, his creation.

    YouTube Link:

  • Why did God Pant the Tree

    Ravi Zacharias, and another panel participant answer a question: “Why did God plant the tree?”. Short, but a little heavy and sweet at the some time.

    YouTube Video:

  • Versebyverseseministry.org – Shame

    This podcast looks at the state of Adam and Eve and focuses heavily on the aspect of shame. It is an angle that you may not have seriously contemplated before.

    Podcast Website:
    Podcast Audio Download:

  • Their Story

    John Walton, an OT scholar looks at The Fall. The presentation is “Telling ‘their story’”. It is a look at Adam and Eve as Archetypes. This is a strong proposition because it has a view of Adam and Eve that works whether you look at them as true individuals, as a representative couple, a philisophical group, or simple as an object lesson. Fair warning. At times if is somewhat academic and deep. There are some wonderful nuggets to chew on from this one.

    YouTube Video

Here are some things to think about when studying these resources.

  • What do you think are the major differences between Eastern and Western thought?
  • How does Eastern Thought look at sin in comparison to Western thought?
  • Do you think God set up Adam and Eve to fall?
  • What could either Adam or Eve have done to redeem themselves?
  • What is the significance of shame and covering themselves in this story?

Session 003: Genesis 2: Adam and Eve: Western & Eastern Interpretations

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This week we will be looking at the creation of Adam and Even in Chapter 2 of Genesis.

We will look at it from the Eastern and Jewish perspective as we listen to the BEMA discipleship podcast and Marty Solomon.

We will also listen to this from a more Western traditional interpretation as presented in three sermons from Steven Armstong in the Verse by Verse Ministry website.

Refer to the Resources tab for links to this weeks resources for study. We are looking forward to the discussions during our next session. Have a wonderful week.

After the class this will be a link to to a podcast of the discussion points

Session 001: Genesis 1: Traditional and Eastern Thought

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This week we are diving into scripture for the first time. Our scripture will be from Gensis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3; the creation story as most people know it from the Bible. On our resource tab we have a short introduction to the materal, links to dramatized readings of the scripture and three separate podcasts that present the creation story from three different perspectives. This material should be wonderful fertilizer for our group discussion.

Enjoy!

Refer to the Resources tab for links to this weeks resources for study.

After the class this will be a link to to a podcast of the discussion points