Tag Archives: Traditional Thought

Session 027: Genesis 9:18 – 9:28: The Son’s of Noah – Western Traditional Thought

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Class OverviewClass ResourcesClass Discussion Points
This week we look at the story of Noah and His Sons. This is rarely covered in everyday Christian sermons and Bible Studies because it is just weird to our Western ears. We will look at this from the Western perspective and the first thing that you will notice is that the variations of interpretations are mind numbing.

Major Interpretations of what happened:
– Ham sees his father naked and makes fun of him.
– Ham had sexual relations with his mother.
– Ham had sexual relations with his father.
– Ham castrated his father to prevent a fourth son, or additional brother for Ham.

Major interpretations of why Canaan was cursed instead of Ham:
– Mistranslation: Should have been translated “the father of Canaan”.
– Ham and Canaan were both involved in the event.
– Ham had been blessed by God. You can’t curse someone who has been blessed by God.
– The ‘curse’ of Canaan is more of a prophecy.
– The provides an ‘excuse or reason’ to support why the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt is justified taking over the land of Canaan.

  • Genesis 9:18 through 9:28

    Text from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 9

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 9 Audio

  • Suggested Study Resources

    The following three resources should be helpful. Of course feel free to chase down any study rabbit holes and you want to chase. This is your deep dive in the Word.

  • Got Questions: Why did Noah curse Canaan instead of Ham?

    Nicely covers several possible theories on what happened.

    Web Site Link
    YouTube Video Link

  • Verse by Verse Ministries – Genesis 9b

    Recaps all of Chapter 9, the covenant and the sons of Noah. If you want to skip over his review of the covenant he starts discussing the Son’s of Noah around the 26th minute. His analysis of the situation in my opinion is almost entirely from a Western perspective, even though he claims his basis is on the norms of Noah’s society. This will be a great contrast to the Eastern interpretation that we study next session.

    Website Link
    Audio Download

  • Genesis 9:18-29 – Noah and His Sons After the Flood.

    A quick read and overviews the story with a couple of ew tidbits that weren’t covered in the other sources.

    Article Link

  • EXTRA CREDIT ARTICLES:

    If you want to dive deeper into this scripture, I have found a few resources that take different views of this scripture passage. They are worth your time.

    The Sons of Noah

    A rather detailed look at the sons of Noah and what lands and peoples came from them. While generally good, there does seem to be a rather strong flare of ethnocentrism in places.

    Article Link

    The Curse of Ham – Wikipedia Article

    While a Wikipedia article, it covers the topic from multiple perspectives and attempts to do so in a non-biased manner. A few interesting thoughts that were not seen in the sources we listed for the class

    Web Link

    The Sons of Noah: Shem, Ham and Japheth after the Flood (A Bible Study on Genesis 9:18-27).

    Another telling which adds a few additional tidbits of interpretation. One of interest is looking at the parallel between Genesis 3 and Genesis 9.

    Web Link

Here are some questions and thoughts to ponder as you look into the resources for this week.

  1. Drinking wine verses getting drunk.
  2. We spent some time discussing the ‘shame’ of nakedness with Adam an Eve. Do you think that same shame is applicable here? Or do you think that something else is at play.
  3. What exactly was the indignity that was committed by Ham?
  4. What do you make of Ham neither being cursed or blessed by Noah? The blessings go to Ham’s brothers, and the curse to his son.
  5. Since this is the only story of Noah after the flood, do you think that it was included to provide justification from Moses, when he wrote down these stories, as justification for moving into the land of Canaan with the nation of Israel?
  6. Not a question, but a topic of thought. What of the descendants of the cursed genealogical line postulated as being of darker skin and/or of a lessor class of human? Are there still remnants of this thought alive and well today??
  7. Why do you think that the first words that we have EVER heard from Noah, are a curse?

Session 024: Genesis 8:18 – 9:17: God’s Covenant with Noah: Traditional Thought

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This week we now move into the events after the flood. We will start with Genesis Chapter 8:18 and go through Genesis 9:17. We could probably study just this passage for five or six weeks. We will just spend three weeks. I strongly encourage you to dive into your own rabbit holes as you study this passage. There are tangential aspects of the story that can be found all over the place

  • Genesis 8:18 through 9:17

    Text from The Bible Gateway starting with Chapter 9

    Genesis 9

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 8 Audio
    Genesis 9 Audio

  • Suggested Study Resources

    The following three resources should be helpful. Of course feel free to chase down any study rabbit holes and you want to chase. This is your deep dive in the Word.

  • The Bible Project – The Covenants

    This is a short 5 minute video overviewing the covenants of the Bible.

    Web Site Link
    Audio Download

  • Noahide Commands and the Covenant of Noah

    This Interesting Idea on the sacrifice after the flood. Was the sacrifice a Thank Offering or was it an offering to pacify God’s Wrath? [NOTE: requires free account with academia.org]

    Article Link

  • The Noahic Covenant – A New Beginning

    45 minute sermon on the Noah Covenant. This is what might be considered an old style sermon. It includes an interpretation of the flood and the covenant that focuses on the value of life.

    Web Page with Transcript
    Audio Download

  • EXTRA CREDIT ARTICLES:

    If you want to dive deeper into this scripture, I have found a few resources that take different views of this scripture passage. They are worth your time.

    Nature of the Covenant with Noah in Genesis 6:18

    This is a detailed review of the convenant(s) within the story of Noah. Are there two covenants? This is a deep dive into the covenant. Uses text from books outside of the protestant Bible. From academia.org which requires a free account to be created.

    Article Link

    Digging Deeper into Scripture: Genesis 9

    This is a relatively short article that brings up a few interesting ideas about the covenant.

    Web Link

    GENESIS 9 – GOD’S COVENANT WITH NOAH AND CREATION – David Guzik

    A very expositorial study of the story of the covenant with Noah. This one is well worth your time.

    Web Link
    Video Link
    Audio Download

  1. Did Noah present an offering, or a sacrifice?
  2. Was there one covenant, or two?
  3. What was the important meaning behind the covenant?
    1. …from God’s perspective?
    2. …from Noah’s perspective?
  4. What intended (or unintended) consequences came from God stating that meat could be eaten?
  5. What do you find from the concept of blood being the implied source of life? … what about the accounting when a life is taken?
  6. Was the covenant with Noah? … or with Noah and his sons?
  7. What do you think of the animals now being fearful of humans?

Session 020: Genesis 6:9 – 8:22: Noah and the Flood: Overview and Western Perspective

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This week we will start our study of Noah and the flood. We will be covering Genesis 6:9 through 8:22. Our next session will be an overview of the entire story and a look at it from our normal Western theological perspectives. We are also going to make note of the inconsistancies and holes in the story by asking questions.

  • Genesis 6:9 through 8:22

    Text from The Bible Gatewaystarting with Chapter 6

    Genesis 6

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway

    Genesis 6 Audio
    Genesis 7 Audio
    Genesis 8 Audio

  • Suggested Study Resources

    The following four resources should be helpful. Of course feel free to chase down any study rabbit holes that you want to chase. This is your deep dive in the Word.

  • 9 Things You Should Know

    First, a short article from The Gospel Coalition that lists 9 things that you should pick out of the story. Make a note of the chiasm that they outline. As we have discussed before, these chiasms point to the particular point of the story that the original authors thought was important.

    Article Link

  • God’s Spirit-Flood Narrative

    This second resource is a podcast from The Bible Project. It focuses on God’s Spirit in the flood narrative. While not Jewish in nature, they do bring up some strong Jewish perspectives through this podcast

    Podcast Link

  • If God Remembers, Does He Forget?

    If we believe the chiasm in this story, then the most interesting point is that God remembers. This is an article from The Bible Project that asks he question, “If God remembers, does he also forget?”

    Article Link:

  • Article from The Guardian

    This last resource is not from a Christian perspective. It does offer several perspectives found in our society that I think it is important to be aware of. I found it to be an enjoyable read.

    Article Link:

  • EXTRA CREDIT ARTICLES:

    We are back to having extra credit. These are resources that we probably won’t spend any time discussion in our next session, but if you are wanting to get deeper into the study of this text, these should be valuable.

    Catholic Catechism

    This link points to the Catholic Catechism that mentions Noah and the Flood directly. For non-Catholics, it may be valuable.

    Link

    Noah and the Flood in the Septuagint

    A good article that outlines the issues of translating between Hebrew, Greek and other languages where the nuance of the language is lost. Discusses some concerns in the Noah story that are often glossed over in theological contexts.

    Article Link:

    The Theology of the Flood Narrative: Literary Structure, Biblical Allusion and Divine Characterisation

    An interesting academic article on the Theology of the Noah story that mixes theological, literary and Interpretive concepts together.
    Article Link:

The Flood story is one of those stories where even kids often go … Huh? As Christians, we tend to gloss over the incongruities, and questions that arise from this text. In other cases, we try to explain away these issues. Often, to hilarious result for those outside of the Christian community.

Since we will be spending additonal weeks looking at this story in the Bible the main thing you should do this week is look at it with a critical eye.

  • What things seem incongruent or inconsistant?
  • What holes are there in the story that don’t seem to have an answer for you.
  • What things in the story would make a 6 year old go … Huh?

Write them down. These are the things we want to ponder over the next few weeks. With one of the main questions being; does it matter?

Session 012: Genesis 4: Cain and Abel: A Traditional View

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This week we dive into Genesis chapter 4. The story of Cain and Abel. This is a short story, seemingly lacking in a lot of detail. And yet there is so much there. It also lends itself to many divergent interpretations depending on your worldview. For this session we are going to look at two rather traditional Western interpretations. yet, they are very different from each other. This will be good to look at these contrasting interpretations even if they are from a very Western perspective.

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway.

    Genesis 4

  • The Bible You Thought You Knew: The Story of Cain and Abel

    This is a well delivered explanation of Genesis 4 with particular attention to the ‘the ground’.

    Podcast Web Page:
    Podcast Download:

    • The Word on the Street: GENESIS: Cain and Abel

    This is a short podcast that takes a completely different perspective ad lesson from the story of Cain and Abel. This one focuses on relationships and sin. This is more typical of what you would hear in a Western Church rpesentation of the Cain and Abel story. The contrast in these two perspectives will be interesting in our group discussion.

    Podcast Web Page:

Here are some questions to prompt your study and/or discussion time:

  • When you read the story of Cain and Abel, what do you feel that the primary message is about? Obedience? Jeleaousy? Sin? Correction? What else?
  • What do you think about the podcast with a strong focus on ‘the ground’? Have you ever considered the implications of the ground?
  • The Word on the Street Podcast is based toward family devotionals, what did you get out of her interpretation of the story? What was your big take away?
  • What questions are outstanding for you when you read or heard the story? What details seem to be missing?
  • If you felt that there was a life application for you in this sotry, what was it? Hopefully your answer is something other than ‘don’t murder’.

Session 007: Genesis 3: The Fall – An Eastern and Western Perspective

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Genesis Chapter 3 is often referred to as the story of ‘The Fall’. Sadly, while there is much to be gained from this passage, there has also been many interpretations that have been self-serving and damaging to others. In this session we will dive deeply into both the Western and Eastern views of this scripture. While we don’ thave time to cover all aspects, the included links will provide plenty of fuel for some deep discussions.

  • Session 007 Prolog Podcast

    Podcast webpage
    Podcast Download

  • Scripture Audio:

    Presented as dramatizations from The Bible Gateway.

    Genesis 3

  • Knowing When to Say Enough

    We’ve listened to it before, so if you have already listened to it once, you are ahead of the class. Or listen to it again, but focus on the material from Chapter 3.

    BEMA Discipleship Podcast website:
    BEMA Session 3 download:

  • Playing God

    Rabbi Jari Lorge delivers a presentation that is called “Playing God”. It is a wildly different look at the Creation story than we are used to and comes from a purely Jewish perspective. As a Western Christian, when you hear the initial premise, you will probably be turned off and/or caught off guard. Stick with it; not because you will necessarily agree in the end, but the insights that were presented definitely have facets that can be translated effectively in our understanding of God’s relationship with us, his creation.

    YouTube Link:

  • Why did God Pant the Tree

    Ravi Zacharias, and another panel participant answer a question: “Why did God plant the tree?”. Short, but a little heavy and sweet at the some time.

    YouTube Video:

  • Versebyverseseministry.org – Shame

    This podcast looks at the state of Adam and Eve and focuses heavily on the aspect of shame. It is an angle that you may not have seriously contemplated before.

    Podcast Website:
    Podcast Audio Download:

  • Their Story

    John Walton, an OT scholar looks at The Fall. The presentation is “Telling ‘their story’”. It is a look at Adam and Eve as Archetypes. This is a strong proposition because it has a view of Adam and Eve that works whether you look at them as true individuals, as a representative couple, a philisophical group, or simple as an object lesson. Fair warning. At times if is somewhat academic and deep. There are some wonderful nuggets to chew on from this one.

    YouTube Video

Here are some things to think about when studying these resources.

  • What do you think are the major differences between Eastern and Western thought?
  • How does Eastern Thought look at sin in comparison to Western thought?
  • Do you think God set up Adam and Eve to fall?
  • What could either Adam or Eve have done to redeem themselves?
  • What is the significance of shame and covering themselves in this story?

Session 003: Genesis 2: Adam and Eve: Western & Eastern Interpretations

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Session OverviewSession ResourcesSession Discussion Points

This week we will be looking at the creation of Adam and Even in Chapter 2 of Genesis.

We will look at it from the Eastern and Jewish perspective as we listen to the BEMA discipleship podcast and Marty Solomon.

We will also listen to this from a more Western traditional interpretation as presented in three sermons from Steven Armstong in the Verse by Verse Ministry website.

Refer to the Resources tab for links to this weeks resources for study. We are looking forward to the discussions during our next session. Have a wonderful week.

After the class this will be a link to to a podcast of the discussion points

Session 001: Genesis 1: Traditional and Eastern Thought

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This week we are diving into scripture for the first time. Our scripture will be from Gensis 1:1 to Genesis 2:3; the creation story as most people know it from the Bible. On our resource tab we have a short introduction to the materal, links to dramatized readings of the scripture and three separate podcasts that present the creation story from three different perspectives. This material should be wonderful fertilizer for our group discussion.

Enjoy!

Refer to the Resources tab for links to this weeks resources for study.

After the class this will be a link to to a podcast of the discussion points